Comments on: What Are Creatives in the Community Worth?

By: Momodou

Momodou — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:50:42 +0000

This debate was really interesting and I learnt some new things but if I may comment I do not think Kerry should be phased out by the “insubstantial response” if Bobbie felt that if was insubstantial that is her own opinion and she may voice it anyhow she wants, it might offend people but hey thats life!

By: Yemisi Blake

Yemisi Blake — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:14:55 +0000

Hi guys,
It’s been really interesting reading your conversation.
Valuing creative work is always going to be difficult and uncomfortable. Is your day rate worth any less if know one shows up to the workshop?
Do you deserve to get paid more if the people you’re working with or for extend the brief of the workshop/ commission without doing the same for payment. These are a couple of the questions that I’ve had to think about recently and it’s been really helpful reading what you guys have said.

At the moment I’m in a situation where my day rate goes up and down. Sometimes an organisation will other offer a good pay for a workshop and I’ll take without question. But often I work for organisations who have small budgets but provide imaginative projects that will really challenge my skills as a creative and allow be to develop working in new environments and new groups. Maybe my views will change when I’m doing creative work full-time, which I understand if a struggle for a lot of people. But for now I kinda see it as a juggle.

Yem

By: Antonio Roberts

Antonio Roberts — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:34:30 +0000

@Bobbie

yeah, I think there is a general misunderstanding about what we do.

My website’s still being updated, so the links will work soon! Otherwise, right now I deliver workshops around the theme of the environment but with an arty twist e.g. print making with natural resources.

By: /.robot

/.robot — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:59:25 +0000

Hi Dave,
Don’t worry my company makes software *for* higher ed, rather than working from inside the institutions themselves!
Interesting to note – although every software company I’ve freelanced or worked for has its fair share of people who could be considered “poor value”, its the large banks and insurance companies that have the largest quota of highly paid numpties. Why? Simply because those organisations can afford to hire armies of highly paid freelancers.
Having spend some time as a freelancer, depressed with clearing up after sloppy overpaid “permies” subsidised by over-inflated bank charges, I personally choose to earn less in a more fulfilling job making a difference to University students and researchers.
The price one pays for a more fulfilling and rewarding career path can quite often be lower wages, a balance between polyphony and pound notes is hard to acheive!

By: Dave Harte

Dave Harte — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:22:18 +0000

Not sure that I want to go near the ‘value’ issue. However, if your partner works in software within a uni then he needs to change jobs! The really interesting thing about the research is that although there are more ‘creative’ jobs in the non-creative sector you will get paid more by being a creative working in a creative company.

In software you’ll get £5k more on average by working directly for a creative company but in music you’ll jump from about £14k to £24k.

You should be wary of the stats though as they don’t include freelance figures (the government hasn’t really got an accurate way to include those figures) so all figures relate to employees within or outside of the music industry (and all the other sectors of the creative industries).

Dave

By: Bobbie

Bobbie — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:10:21 +0000

Thanks Nick and Dave!

Dave that news is truly depressing!

The funny or bittersweet thing is my partner works in the software industry; mainly working with unis.

We both work hard- but I am skint and he isn’t. Does this mean his work is valued more?

By: Nick Booth

Nick Booth — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:21:29 +0000

I’ve always been puzzled why the fee is not based on what schools pay for substitute teachers. I’m assuming that what we provide has more educational value than a the traditional babysitting role played by agency staff.

By: Dave Harte

Dave Harte — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:06:59 +0000

There's some new research from Nesta that shows that workers in all aspects of the Creative Industries, with the exception of music and the performing arts, get well above the national average salary. Even worse for musicians is the revelation that those of you who are 'embedded' in other sectors (such as community work or schools or other non-music environments) earn the least (about £14k a year). It's those guys in software and computer games who are earning over 80% more than the national average... I've done a summary of the research on my website.

By: Paying artists properly « Clare Edwards’s Weblog

Paying artists properly « Clare Edwards’s Weblog — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:39:40 +0000

[...] artists properly February 21, 2008 A great blog/debate has started on Bobbie Gardner’s blog about the trials of getting paid properly if you are a community artist. I’ve waded in as it [...]

By: kerry

kerry — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:51:18 +0000

well I think there is a positive to come out of this and I will personally aim to lobby our contractors further so we can get more money for our artists in the future. I dare say it will be a long battle but you have to start somewhere.

By: Bobbie

Bobbie — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:41:20 +0000

Hi Kerry- I have not intended to use you personally. It was a mixture of factors this week with schools and others that triggered it all off. Maybe I drew to heavily from our chat. Sorry!

As you have proven you are simply trying to do your job.

By: Bobbie

Bobbie — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:35:00 +0000

Nice one Clare! Thanks for chairing the debate!

What can I do to help make this so important, necessary and valid case so organisations like Kerry’s and whinge bags like me can get paid properly?